The problem with being a police force that says officers don’t display ID because the uniforms have insufficient space is that people don’t believe anything else you say. So excuse the public if they don’t take the Glock find and the nail-bomb find all that seriously.
Presumably, we are supposed to think elements in the protest movement hope to further their cause through mass-murder. Even if such a deranged fringe existed, could it acquire such apparently high-grade and illegal materials? (Hint: you are invited to suspect evil AmCham/CIA foreign forces of supplying them.)
Another possibility is that pro-Beijing extremists were plotting to use the weaponry – say, against marchers. That would be so counterproductive that only lone nuts – again, probably without access to sophisticated munitions – would consider it.
At the other end of the scale, we might wonder if cops acting under authority planted the stuff in order to smear the opposition. (Note ‘under authority’.) At the risk of sounding naïve, let’s be charitable and doubt they’re that dumb. (In a nice mood today.)
Assuming the seized items are real (and not like the ‘Molotov cocktails’ that turn out to be unopened beers or plastic bottles of cooking oil), who would benefit from these finds? That would obviously be the government and Beijing, in terms of PR. This points to some of the real nasties out there (‘patriotic’ Triads, possibly rogue cops, maybe Mainland spooks) who could get their hands on a classy handgun, ammo and high-explosives. One anonymous tip-off later – and the police are gleefully parading evidence and showing off their intrepid sleuthing.
This could be uber-patriots acting alone, or someone in the Liaison Office getting desperate – assuming there’s a clear distinction. It seems the likeliest explanation, anyway. (Or second likeliest if you think cops are that dumb.)
Unlike the SCMP, the government hasn’t gone into an outraged panty-wetting mega-frenzy over this – which it would (rightly) do if it genuinely believed someone was planning a terrorism campaign.
On my return to HK yesterday, I couldn’t help but notice two riot squad members at the airport, slouched, with feet up on chairs, paying more attention to their mobile phones than their surroundings.
@So.
Yes. It’s game over. The post above suggests we are now at the denial stage. Yesterday’s flop of a General Strike tells you everything you need to know about the city’s present mood. It ain’t “Revolution of out Times”.
Yeah it smelled fishy seeing that almost new Glock and a slew of nice, shiny magazines. 100+ rounds? Jackpot and immediate thoughts of this being a plant.
Do over, Popos.
“She (CL, on groveling to anti democracy CCP stooge politicians) said many voters failed to examine the district work of candidates and only voted to express their dissatisfaction with the government.” ~HKFP Dec 10, 2019
The farking useless t**t just CAN’T get it into that thick coconut, can she? THAT was the whole POINT of elections wasn’t it?? FFS…
Truly odd Glock (Glock 19 Gen 3 upper — with custom Gen 5 slide and custom polymer lower), and a really strange amount of ammo: 106rds with four mags*. All found shortly after the new Yuen Long triad-connected boss starts campaign to make police look like nice guys again (this time without having the force turn a blind eye to his triad mates beating up the general populace).
So I’m going to say the boys in black who are compensating for inadequacies elsewhere by “customising” their Glocks had a whip around and built one to plant from their leftovers that didn’t fit or jammed a lot. They left four mags and emptied out three more to look “about right”.
*106 rounds is exactly 7 full magazines of 15rds and one in the chamber. Someone clearly failed to think that buying guns and ammo doesn’t work like signing out a gun and some magazines from the police armoury. You buy the magazines empty, you fill them yourself from a box of ammo. Ammo comes in boxes of 20, 25, 50, 100, 250, 1000. 106 with a 15rd mag doesn’t make a lick of sense, from a “bought a box and used some” perspective — you’d finish the magazine of 15rds when shooting a test batch.
Great detective work of the force, they earned that 6% pay rise!
Another word for ‘contrarian’ is ‘troll’.
@ Glock, non stock, except the barrel?
You say: “you’d finish the magazine of 15rds when shooting a test batch.”
Nah, you’d only discharge a few rounds to check things out and try not to wake the neighbours. The number of rounds should not be exaggerated.
If it wasn’t an outright plant, it was most likely a sting operation. Go looking for someone desperate and stupid enough to try to buy a gun off an undercover cop, sell it to them, then arrest them for it. Pretty standard “terrorism” bust. In almost all cases, said wannabes are too amateurish to have ever acquired illegal weapons on their own in the first place.
@Chef Wonton
If you were at all serious, you’d want to check all four magazines, the gun and the ammo by using at least all four full magazines. That way you can check for and remedy stoppages caused by the gun the mags or the ammo. If you can shoot a few rounds and get away with it, you might as well go a full 60rd test.
But if it’s cobbled together from bits by the cops… well they wouldn’t fire any rounds: they’d chamber a round to prove it can cycle, then they’d end up with a multiple of 15 plus 1 like 106.
The big question (that they interestingly didn’t show) is what sort of ammo it was. Because if it was hollow point ammo, that’s even more incriminating for the cops, as it is the only type they’re issued, and you’d probably want something else to penetrate police bulletproof vests.
GNSETB & Cassowary – I am with you. A set up. Some cop with triad links put word on the street that a gun was for sale and some simple-minded wannabe tough guys took the bait.
Also, I did read somewhere that they were hallow points – same as what the po po use.
@Glock, non stock, except the barrel?
So you also noted it was a G19 but with a non-factory frame.
A P80 (Polymer80) kit also fits the bill either put together in the US or here in HK, either way illegally imported along with the mags and ammo?
Gun buffs
Forgive my innocence but I thought hollow point bullets were prohibited due to the internal devastation they are designed to cause?
@dimunendo
Hollow points are standard issue to HKPF supposedly because they don’t want to kill anyone else just passing by, but it’s more likely (judging on gun aficionados generally and the propensity of the HKPF to dress up in special forces costumes, cover their guns in unnecessary optics and go for head shots with 40mm grenades and less lethal rounds) they thought hollow points were cooler precisely because of the internal devastation they are designed to cause.
@Mitta Grock
Could be a p80 build, but then why stick with the gen3 upper? Why not gen5 to match the slide and go for the 17rd mags?
If “the plan” is to kill all the police you can, an extra 8rds over 4mags is a good idea.
If “the plan” is to plant an untraceable Glock on some hapless students, then ordering replacement bits and marking a few as lost/dropped/broken/destroyed and building any sort of Glock out of them is a good idea.
Glock,non stop etc
Thanks for the explanation. You may have missed my use of the word “prohibited” by which I meant by international convention. Am I wrong in understanding that hollow point bullets are prohibited from being used by armies in war? If I am correct, then are civilian police forces exempted from such prohibition or is the HK Police Force (and others) simply ignoring such prohibition?
Apologies for having to rely on wikipedia (see legality) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet and how does the seeming proliference reconcile with their being banned in war? Why are standards for say the HKPF significantly different (and I would say lower) than for an army?
@dimuendo
Hollow points are much like CS gas: definitely banned in warfare but perfectly fine for police to use on civilians: it’s not military use, so… it’s somehow just fine, legally.
I guess the idea is that unlike in war, a police force will use chemical weapons and hollow points sparingly and responsibly.
The HKPF has failed obviously and hard in both these respects on the chemical weapons front: using 16,000 gas grenades in six months, with absolutely no follow up decontamination; shooting 40mm grenades and throwing hand grenades directly (and blindly) at civilians, with the attendant fire/burn/blunt trauma/kill risk; gassing the very young, elderly and even the handicapped and using chemical weapons in confined spaces (the MTR).
Basically the HKPF use of CS Gas is completely textbook: in so far as it’s exactly what you find in that the bit of the textbook entitled “What not to do *Ever*” with the pictures of people doing stupid things with big red “NO” crosses next to them.
As to their new Taobao-bought CS gas — given that mainland baby milk formula is deadly, who knows what toxic nastiness is in their CS gas? One obvious thing from the changeover is that the new grenades appear to be a huge fire risk.
It honestly baffles me at this point why the cops even bother with CS gas — the protesters they want to disperse all wear masks that counteract the gas, so it’s essentially pointless, and all it really does is recruit new protesters out of the general populace and set fire to the odd shop, car or home.
Back in the 60s-70s the British Army — who weaponised modern CS gas at Porton Down — used CS gas over a 3 year period and CR gas/spray (another Porton Downer) for a 8-year period in Northern Ireland before giving up — probably because it strengthened resistance against the army and helped radicalised more of the populace in the long run. Since signing the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1997, the British Army can only use CS gas on their own men, to test their NBC suits.
The British police has used CS gas on rioters precisely once in the mainland — during the Toxteth riots in 1981 (even a psychotic Thatcher fresh from her near pyrrhic “victory” in the Falklands only used it once).
UK police forces have however regularly used CS sprays since 1996, despite managing to kill a suspect a mere 15 days into the 6-month “evaluation period” with the stuff, although most forces appear to now favour the less toxic PAVA [pepper spray]. Lancet studies suggest the deaths and permanent disfigurements from the toxic side effects (uncommon) are generally preferable statistically (ie lower) than the deaths from head wounds, suffocation, heart attacks and broken bones from police physically restraining people without PAVA.
No such excuse for Asia’s most unwanted, who are regularly filmed beating, kicking, smashing against walls and kneeling on the necks and heads of the already restrained.
On the hollow-point front, they have only succeeded in shooting three kids thus far out of 19rds shot, which the more monstrous soul might argue to be “sparing” usage.
I’m afraid I’m a bit of a disciplinarian myself, so I’m of the opinion that as a policeman, if you shoot your gun at all, either directly at or as a warning to anyone not similarly or more heavily armed, then you have failed hard and failed fully at the job of being a policeman, and should be investigated and then demoted, sacked and/or jailed as required. Ironically, the old short, sharp, shock is all those sort of government thugs seem to understand.
Glock, non stop etc
Thank you for the explanation and comments.
Well worth a drink one day.